Comments on news posted 2024-07-01 07:30:02: • FCC Proposes Phone Unlocking After 60 Days [telecompetitor.com]
• Verizon Debuts New Logo, Programs, and Benefits [webpronews.com]
• Could 5G carriers ink a spectrum deal with TV broadcasters? [lightreading. ..
It won’t change a thing. If you read the fine print, if you cancel your account before the device is paid off you are on the hook for the remaining cost of the device.
Furthermore, I pay full price for my devices, I don’t believe in financing.
Then the phone is stolen and put on a list. Other carriers won’t activate it if it’s on the list. Also goes on your credit report. Then gets sent to collections, and your harassed about it.
Waiting for California or New York to make it illegal for companies to even use your credit report for anything. It's another form of encouraged/sanctioned discrimination that no one protests about.
do you know how much stuff doesn't go on your credit report?
This will be no different, in the end. "Oh, cell phone hsit doesn't count--the companies are all scummy."
Most telecoms run your credit. That’s the price you pay to finance a device. If they are running your credit, bet your ass it will be on your credit report if you don’t pay.
do you know how much stuff doesn't go on your credit report?
This will be no different, in the end. "Oh, cell phone hsit doesn't count--the companies are all scummy."
Most telecoms run your credit. That’s the price you pay to finance a device. If they are running your credit, bet your ass it will be on your credit report if you don’t pay.
and consumers will gathor on Twitbooktok, yell and scream, and vote-hungry legislators will say "wut? We can't have THAT!" and, just like medical bills, legislators will declare telecom stuff to be "predatory" and will pass ill-conceived laws to prevent said debts from being recorded on your credit history.
Not unlike shoplifting under $950 in San Francisco, with regard to your criminal record there. (And THEY put up street signs everywhere to remind everyone, please add it up before you walk out of the store--make multiple trips if you must.)
Ok, lets say my credit is at 700. Yours over 800. What are they gonna do, charge me more? That should be illegal just like insurance (on your car), which seems to link your credit score to how much they can shaft you out of.
Ok, lets say my credit is at 700. Yours over 800. What are they gonna do, charge me more? That should be illegal just like insurance (on your car), which seems to link your credit score to how much they can shaft you out of.
No they will generally make you pay x amount towards the device OR not fiance the device. Thats how T Mobile does it anyway.
Furthermore Insurance companies are known to charge people will crappy credit more money.
But why not just do what the govt does to deny students loans. Check mom/dads bank account and if they have "too much" money, any money at all, you either get a reduced loan, don't qualify for a Pell grant or no loan at all and no fell grant. Guess if you got enough money to send your kid to college, you don't need to be financing a phone. Car/house are big ticket items. Even a $1500 cell phone isn't.
Now on the serious side, ever notice the less debt you have, to worse your score is? They WANT you to be and stay in debt. There's something wrong with that picture. Heck, I seen my score drop because I was paying off my credit cards before the due date. Seriously. My score dropped and it said because I was not holding on to debt long enough. I never heard of such a bullshit reason.
It won’t change a thing. If you read the fine print, if you cancel your account before the device is paid off you are on the hook for the remaining cost of the device.
Furthermore, I pay full price for my devices, I don’t believe in financing.
I get a new unlocked Galaxy S phone every year, directly from Samsung. If I finance it, I always get two to four years no interest. And just pay it off within a year, before the next model comes out.
By not being on the big three, the money I save more than covers the cost of me getting a new Galaxy S phone every year. With trade in of the old device. I'm currently on US mobile. And I only pay $23 a month, when paid yearly. Yet I still get the same priority as Verizon post paid. And have no problem getting 1.8 Gb/s download speeds. In the appropriate locations.
I get a new unlocked Galaxy S phone every year, directly from Samsung. If I finance it, I always get two to four years no interest. And just pay it off within a year, before the next model comes out.
So you're simply trading in every year for a high value, which Sammy and Apple use as a mechanism to acknowledge that their phones are gawdaful too expensive and therefore "sell" them for less to those who are yearly loyal to the program.
What's the trade-in for a mid to high end S up to now, anyway? List price is $1200; how much do they give you for last year's model? $800?
It ends up putting a defined monthly cost on the calendar--maybe $400/year, or $35/month--as opposed to trying to keep the phone for several years, watching it depreciate, and 5 years later you start all over from scratch.
I get it. I wouldn't do it, but I get it. The math may or may not make sense, but I get it. Call it $40/month for an always-current phone, plus $23/month for service.
I get a new unlocked Galaxy S phone every year, directly from Samsung. If I finance it, I always get two to four years no interest. And just pay it off within a year, before the next model comes out.
So you're simply trading in every year for a high value, which Sammy and Apple use as a mechanism to acknowledge that their phones are gawdaful too expensive and therefore "sell" them for less to those who are yearly loyal to the program.
What's the trade-in for a mid to high end S up to now, anyway? List price is $1200; how much do they give you for last year's model? $800?
It ends up putting a defined monthly cost on the calendar--maybe $400/year, or $35/month--as opposed to trying to keep the phone for several years, watching it depreciate, and 5 years later you start all over from scratch.
I get it. I wouldn't do it, but I get it. The math may or may not make sense, but I get it. Call it $40/month for an always-current phone, plus $23/month for service.
Samsung typically has the best deals and highest trade in values when the new models get launched. I learned that many years ago which is why I now always get one at launch, every year. Plus I also get around 10% to 12% cashback, from TopCashBack, when I get a new Galaxy S phone. Which further decreases my out of pocket cost.
Since they always have higher cashback available when the new phones launch. So the out of pocket amount is even lower. No way would I ever pay the retail price for a cell phone. Not without the generous trade in deals and store credit Samsung gives me
They have great trade in deals. Plus an extra $200 to $250 or so of credit toward items in the Samsung store. I know some people who just get those things and sell them. But I typically get something and either use it myself or give it as a gift to my GF, friends, or family.
Like I've had free galaxy watches and free galaxy Buds from the credit each year. Heck, I still haven't opened the free galaxy Buds FE I got with my S24 Ultra this year. I'll probably give it to my GF and I'll upgrade my Galaxy Buds 2 pro (which was also free with the credit) to the galaxy Buds Pro 3 that will come out.
I get a new unlocked Galaxy S phone every year, directly from Samsung. If I finance it, I always get two to four years no interest. And just pay it off within a year, before the next model comes out.
So you're simply trading in every year for a high value, which Sammy and Apple use as a mechanism to acknowledge that their phones are gawdaful too expensive and therefore "sell" them for less to those who are yearly loyal to the program.
What's the trade-in for a mid to high end S up to now, anyway? List price is $1200; how much do they give you for last year's model? $800?
It ends up putting a defined monthly cost on the calendar--maybe $400/year, or $35/month--as opposed to trying to keep the phone for several years, watching it depreciate, and 5 years later you start all over from scratch.
I get it. I wouldn't do it, but I get it. The math may or may not make sense, but I get it. Call it $40/month for an always-current phone, plus $23/month for service.
Samsung typically has the best deals and highest trade in values when the new models get launched. I learned that many years ago which is why I now always get one at launch, every year. Plus I also get around 10% to 12% cashback, from TopCashBack, when I get a new Galaxy S phone. Which further decreases my out of pocket cost.
Since they always have higher cashback available when the new phones launch. So the out of pocket amount is even lower. No way would I ever pay the retail price for a cell phone. Not without the generous trade in deals and store credit Samsung gives me
They have great trade in deals. Plus an extra $200 to $250 or so of credit toward items in the Samsung store. I know some people who just get those things and sell them. But I typically get something and either use it myself or give it as a gift to my GF, friends, or family.
Like I've had free galaxy watches and free galaxy Buds from the credit each year. Heck, I still haven't opened the free galaxy Buds FE I got with my S24 Ultra this year. I'll probably give it to my GF and I'll upgrade my Galaxy Buds 2 pro (which was also free with the credit) to the galaxy Buds Pro 3 that will come out.
quote:Do you want to upgrade your phone more than once a year? What about three times a year? Are you on AT&T? If you answered yes to those questions, then AT&T’s new “Next Up Anytime” early upgrade program is made for you. With this add-on, you’ll be able to upgrade your phone three times a year for just $10 extra every month.
If they do, so much for subsidized phones. Full retail. I wonder how it would effect the sales of top tier phones?
it will affect nothing.
People love the shiny lure dropped in the water, to the point where they will happily put the entire family of 10 onto the highest tier service plans that end up giving a discount on those phones.
And the users will stay on those highest tier plans for as long as it takes to satisfy the arrangement.
T-Mobile just recently said, no longer will we let you pay off a subsidized phone (and unlock it) and continue to credit the discount amount.
I expect that TMobile's next move will be to make those 24 month phone contracts into 36 months.
And people would respond positively to that, because those 10 financed/discounted iPhone 15 Pro Max phones will be even less per month.
So, the people who do this kind of thing are already doing it, buying $80K trucks on 94 months financing at 9%. But hey, look at that low monthly payment.
T-Mobile just recently said, no longer will we let you pay off a subsidized phone (and unlock it) and continue to credit the discount amount.
FCC Chairwoman Jessica Rosenworcel is a dumb ass. I guess maybe the FCC should be on the hook for the balance of the phone(s) that get unlocked before being paid off? The proposed legislation clearly ONLY takes into consideration phones that are not still being paid for as NOTHING was mentioned about phones still in hock. OR, or maybe she's got her DIC (dumbass in chief) to "forgive" cell phone debt. Another new way to buy votes. Man, this proves she was a perfect pick for Biden's cronies. I'm all for unlocking your phone. Matter of fact, it should be LAW that the last payment on the phone comes with an auto unlocking requirement. However, as you mentioned, what TMO is doing, I'm guessing they had a feeling this might happen so they pulled the early payoff trick rule.
all it really is is a rewriting of the horrible two and three year cell phone contracts from years past. Essentially, since they are giving you bill credits each month, they are charging you an ETF if you terminate early, in the form of of the balance of the phone that they won't help you pay for anymore. They found a way to sneak that ETF back in the back door 😉 it's best just to buy your phones upfront and it's likely to be cheaper in the end to put the phone on a credit card if you have to, over committing to one of these installment contracts that have essentially become the old two and three year service contracts. Just goes to show you how many loopholes there are in the law.
all it really is is a rewriting of the horrible two and three year cell phone contracts from years past.
is anyone surprised?
But, there is one crucial difference: consumers are in COMPLETE control over whether or not they enter into those contracts. And that's a crucial difference that makes it completely different than those old contracts.
Providers happily sell their core product: service. That's really what they exist for. That they also sell phones, is incidental. It's a pain to them. So they mitigate that pain by making it very profitable for them.
And now they market that "buy the phone from us" as being perfectly normal as being "that's how it's done". Nothing could be further from the truth, but consumers are stupid.
As you said, buy the phone and then buy the service separately. It's no big deal. And stop thinking you "deserve" that $1200 phone. If you can't afford it, stop trying to force the issue.
Back then, a flagship smartphone was $400 and you could have it rooted within five minutes.
Now, xda has a monopoly on who is allowed to root or not, phone makers want $2000 for a phone and carriers continually choose the least usable phones possible to sell.
Yes, they keep selling the iphones and galaxy models because the iphones automatically neuter themselves the moment Daddy tim cook says so, and Samsung just arms the detonator to make you buy the next model. No, I will never forgive apple for the gimping or Samsung for the exploding batteries. Do not even bother to @ me about this. Their phones cost entirely too much for either extreme to be at all acceptable.
and Samsung just arms the detonator to make you buy the next model.
I had to LOL.
I never got caught up in any of that, but I know of what you speak.
That all being said: my brother has been a telecom lawyer for 30 years. 20 years ago, he came to understand that the cell companies were purposely degrading battery life on their phones in order to sell you a new one.
I believe the EU is forcing the revival of removable batteries. Good for them. I don't need my phone to be waterproof. I need it to have a good service life, one that I define. Not the manufacturer or the vendor.
Apple doesn't "neuter" anything. Yes, they stop providing updates, and eventually the minimum API level required for the app store will leave you behind. But the devices continue to function. (I have a 5 and 5S that still work just fine... if you can find a carrier that doesn't require VoLTE. They still backup and sync to iCloud just fine. My daily is still an iPhone8!)
Android is no better. You're lucky if your android phone gets *an* update, at all, ever. Many are left abandoned in mere months. And there are virtually no 3rd party releases anymore. (there are just too damned many bits of hardware to support.) Even hardware sold by Google only gets a few years of updates before they fall out of favor. (the few new releases run like shit on older devices because they aren't designed for the limits of older, slower hardware.)
You're lucky if your android phone gets *an* update, at all, ever.
The fact that there are many many manufacturers of Android phones, as opposed to a single source for iOS phones, is what drives that.
What you're describing is CHOICE. Many love the Motorola Razr. But you'll never see a software update--and everyone knows that. That's a manufacturer decision, not a feature of Android.
And it's a choice to be made by the consumer.
My Samsung phones, all Android, get lots of regular updates. For a long time. See? It's not a feature of Android. It's a choice by the manufacturer, and, ultimately, the buyer.
I think I'd rather have many many choices of manufacturers to choose from, than a single manufacturer. Choice is good. Competition is good. Zero competition is bad.
Apple was literally sued for gimping performance, only for every celebrity to buy a brand new iphone as some kind of contrarian support mechanism.
Apple continually puts more and more restrictions for repair, deliberately making it difficult to impossible for a normal person to keep it running. They want $2800 for the authorized repair kit to replace what should be a $10 battery. If you elect not to, it's then banned like Sony bans consoles and game accounts. Their phones nowadays are built so bad, they make Nintendo's n3ds xl and the original Microsoft surface look easy by comparison. It's not even remotely up for debate; apple is known to be anti repair, with YEARS of documented evidence.
Bull. I've replaced the battery in every iPhone I've ever had. Apple hasn't "banned" a damned thing. While there are those that would replace a cracked screen, dead camera, etc. I'm not one of them. (take care of your device and you won't need to.)
they want $2800 for the authorized repair kit to replace what should be a $10 battery.
Im pretty sure they send you the repair kit. You use it and send it back. The $2800 is if you dont send it back. Even then you can still drive you ass to an Apple store and probably have them replace the battery if you dont want to go thru all that trouble.
No they dont ban. People have used non genuine batteries. The most the phone does is complain its not a genuine battery. It still does phone things.
Like SOME printers, (mostly laser).
We had a dozen or so Dell Latitudes, 7200 series tablets (first series we got). You had to pop off the screen to get to the battery. Not for the faint of heart but right around 2 years time, I was replacing batteries. Wasn't that hard, just took a little GENTLE time. Point being, they didn't make it impossible but they sure wasn't going to make it easy for the average consumer.
There are ways around locked bootloaders, etc. BUT someone has to figure out that process. No one is going to do that for the thousands of bits of disposable crap being shit out every day.
There are ways around locked bootloaders, etc. BUT someone has to figure out that process.
There are, but needing to disassemble a phone to get around the locked bootloader, makes it not realistic for most. I wouldn't take it apart myself but I would gladly pay for someone else to do it for me, if there was a known method.
My current phone is starting to die (backlight is getting dim), not sure what I am going to replace it with yet, I really like my stylus (this one isn't rooted but is really close)... I'll use this one until it quits, then I may just go without..
I really don't like other people/groups telling me what I am and am not allowed to do with my devices, because I do things they wouldn't think of doing.
I would be very happy if there was a method to getting root on the current generation of flagship phones, sadly there isn't, only BS excuses, mostly finger-pointing, why we (consumers) are not allowed full access to our devices.
I would happily buy direct from the manufacturer to have an unlocked bootloader, it simply isn't an option.
So, the people who do this kind of thing are already doing it, buying $80K trucks on 94 months financing at 9%. But hey, look at that low monthly payment.
And complain because they don't have a big enough parking spot at the trailer park for that big F250. There was a time one had to get special permission to take your car out of state if you financed it at a local bank. I've heard of military types having to take a run to the JAG office in order to get them to send a letter to the bank to release the car for out of state moves. Don't think that happens much any more, at least I've not heard of it. Still don't agree that the phone should be auto unlocked or a requirement to do so after 60 days unless the customer pays off the phone. The ONLY special exception may be if said customer moves out of state to a location where their carriers service is un-usable, then and only then should it be allowed.
If they do, so much for subsidized phones. Full retail. I wonder how it would effect the sales of top tier phones?
it will affect nothing.
People love the shiny lure dropped in the water, to the point where they will happily put the entire family of 10 onto the highest tier service plans that end up giving a discount on those phones.
And the users will stay on those highest tier plans for as long as it takes to satisfy the arrangement.
T-Mobile just recently said, no longer will we let you pay off a subsidized phone (and unlock it) and continue to credit the discount amount.
I expect that TMobile's next move will be to make those 24 month phone contracts into 36 months.
And people would respond positively to that, because those 10 financed/discounted iPhone 15 Pro Max phones will be even less per month.
So, the people who do this kind of thing are already doing it, buying $80K trucks on 94 months financing at 9%. But hey, look at that low monthly payment.
I never understood why some people just look at the payment amount. I always cared about how much interest I had to pay. I wanted it as low as possible when buying a car.
Which is why I would typically wait until they have a zero percent interest deal, or maybe a 1% interest deal. Otherwise, I only pay interest on my mortgage. I sure as heck would never want to pay interest on a credit card. They have some insane high interest rates. So I either pay any credit card off every month. Or I have a no interest deal on a purchase with a credit card. Either way though, I am not paying any interest on a credit card.
Eh? The last financed devices I bought were from Verizon and they automatically unlock after 60 days because of the deal they made for block C of the 700 MHz spectrum. These days, I always buy my devices upfront. Sometimes I even buy refurbished devices because they can be a really great deal and do everything you want. I actually got my new carrier hooked up on dual Sim just after the unlock and then paid off the devices and ported my number out to Google Voice, when I was looking for some good ways to save some money. But no, the 60 day condition did not stop Verizon from financing phones and we know they are all about money. So I highly doubt it's going to have an impact with the other companies. Sure, they will be kicking and screaming but financed phones are not going away.
The last financed devices I bought were from Verizon and they automatically unlock after 60 days because of the deal they made for block C of the 700 MHz spectrum.
Didn't that expire, or isn't it set to expire soon?
Not true, phones here In Canada have to be unlocked period now when sold on day one, it's been like that for a some years now. They just need to change the term of the contract when subsidizing phones so you can't just switch carriers after signing a contract without paying full price.
They will still subsidize phones to get long term service contracts. You still owe the debt and they will still go after you and your credit for the debt. Nothing stops someone with a subsidize phone right now from refusing to pay their bills.
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