Urza's Will 2U
Sorcery
Until end of turn, you may play face up cards from exile.
If a card would be put in exile from anywhere this turn, exile it face down instead.
Fun twist over Yawgmoth's Will / Gaea's Will. Of course this card will (ahah) never see the light of day under current design philosophy, but I like the idea to give Mark Rosewater a heart stroke while reading the card.
But if this design it was allowed, I feel it pretty much belong to blue and Urza in particular. His card already technically got an ability that cast cards from exile.
I know the potential wants to be there, but I'm trying to imagine where blue would run this over just another copy any counter spell (which has more versatile potential). Maybe if it was more like a Wish, it could be an effective replacement for Cunning Wish.
It kind of makes me feel like what you we're looking for here was something in the vein of Assume.
If this was me, I would have had it allow abilities of permanent cards to be activated and triggered from the graveyards; and then ignore all tap costs; and exile the card after the ability resolves if able. Maybe Rebound or Jump-start or something as a finishing touch.
I know the potential wants to be there, but I'm trying to imagine where blue would run this over just another copy any counter spell (which has more versatile potential). Maybe if it was more like a Wish, it could be an effective replacement for Cunning Wish.
what this has anything to do with a counterspell? It's a recursion effect and a super unique too, with very special uses that a counterspell can never give you. It also accidentally breaks half of a thousand cards (for example you can steal a creature that got a Curse of the Swine, or making stop working an opponent Isochron Scepter to even combo with Paradigm Shift and basically play all your deck in ad nauseam style). There a literally thousands of different ways to make use of this card, only because you fantasy in game design is very limited, doesn't mean it doesn't have his uses. Actually, I suspect it would be even banned in some formats exactly because the effect it's too strong, especially at only 3 mana.
If this was me, I would have had it allow abilities of permanent cards to be activated and triggered from the graveyards; and then ignore all tap costs; and exile the card after the ability resolves if able. Maybe Rebound or Jump-start or something as a finishing touch.
You are the very opposite of what the word "elegance" means in game design.
I am a prominent pioneer and ingenuity enthusiast, so I get where you might be overwhelmed by the complexity of my work sometimes.
Not all great developments can or will be "elegant" by means of Zen, including, "the beauty of simplicity".
However, they can still be great designs by the quality of finesse. In which, doing something complex or unique with great style and fluidity.
New things breathe new life into the game. And this is coming from someone who doesn't actually develop a lot of new card types, but actually thrives on finding ways of doing new things with the functionality that already exists, which is much more difficult.
I definitely missed the Paradigm Shift potential. That's a good one, but it is kinda narrow. The strategy development to provide multiple pathways to victory is there, but only as much as what Assume and Snapcaster Mage can accomplish with greater finesse even.
Don't get me wrong. I don't think it's a bad design. I was just providing creative feedback to broaden your perspective.
Designing cards that would only be legal in vintage can be fun but it's rather pointless.
While most effects can be balanced by increasing their costs. There are a number of effects of which there is no "balanced" cost.
Regardless of your feelings on interacting with cards in exile. A Yawgmoth's Will for exile has no business being printed as Yawgmoth's will had no business being printed.
A Yawgmoth's Will for exile has no business being printed as Yawgmoth's will had no business being printed.
Yawgmoth will was literally printed in a green version and made it modern legal (and nobody is playing it, btw), so saying that there is no "balance cost" possible is literally false lol.
Every effect can be printed with the right balanced cost, we even have effects that draw all your deck and cast all your spells for free and they are fine in every format exactly because they have a balanced mana costs. I have no idea where you get the (totally wrong) pseudo-truism design that some effects are unbalancable. Even all of the power nine, the most powerful cards existing in Magic are perfectly balanced if you add a couple of more mana cost to each of them.
PS; Also im pretty sure the in non-eternal formats the effect would be just fine without breaking the game that much
I am a prominent pioneer and ingenuity enthusiast, so I get where you might be overwhelmed by the complexity of my work sometimes.
Dude you give yourself too much importance. The fact itself that you compared my card to your custom card (and literally got nothing to do with it), pretty tell how much you are self-centered. Stop masturbating yourself with your narcissistic ego big as house. You are nobody. Your designs are not "overwhelming". Are just clunky, wordy, boring and inelegant most of the times. Most of your cards are exactly what any designer actually working at WotC would make as example as "not to do" cards, because they violate the most basic principle of card's design, one of which is about clarity and elegance in effects and templating. Thats why if you would actually manage to create a custom game with your designs you would go bankrupt pretty fast, trust me. Stop deluding yourself of being some like of a misunderstood genius, it will put you nowhere.
A Yawgmoth's Will for exile has no business being printed as Yawgmoth's will had no business being printed.
Yawgmoth will was literally printed in a green version and made it modern legal (and nobody is playing it, btw), so saying that there is no "balance cost" possible is literally false lol.
Every effect can be printed with the right balanced cost, we even have effects that draw all your deck and cast all your spells for free and they are fine in every format exactly because they have a balanced mana costs. I have no idea where you get the (totally wrong) pseudo-truism design that some effects are unbalancable. Even all of the power nine, the most powerful cards existing in Magic are perfectly balanced if you add a couple of more mana cost to each of them.
PS; Also im pretty sure the in non-eternal formats the effect would be just fine without breaking the game that much
There seems to have been a communication breakdown that I'll blame on me for not properly explaining what I mean.
When I said Yawgmoth's Will had no business being printed. I don't mean the effect. I mean the card as a whole, the effect at that mana cost.
My point on balance and cost is more complicated. First, unplayable garbage isn't balanced. Second, when I mentioned being unable to balance an effect with a cost I was specifically referring to adjusting its mana cost. Looking back this was very poorly worded. Though I stand by the principle. Adjusting just the mana cost can't result in a balanced version of this effect or Yawgmoth's Will's effect. Other resictioned would be required as shown by the two other cards with Yawgmoth's Will's effect.
For your ps, do you mean non-eternal or are you using eternal as "non-rotating"? Because if you meant non-eternal then I can confidently say that this would be broken as heck in modern. Not sure about pioneer.
For your ps, do you mean non-eternal or are you using eternal as "non-rotating"? Because if you meant non-eternal then I can confidently say that this would be broken as heck in modern. Not sure about pioneer.
I think this card would be perfectly fine for any limited envinroment (so draft and sealed). In Contructed seems also safe for Standard and probably Pioneer.
I meant eternal formats as the formats the have all the magic card pool available but with exceptions (Vintage, Legacy, EDH), Modern is kinda half-way that.
The principle is that the less is vast the card pool environment where the card is legal, the less the card is abusable or breakable, I think we can all agree on that. Which means that ironically isn't Vintage his best place to shine without needing a ban, but au countraire, this place are the smallest formats.
Anyway, I would be very curious to know how would you break this card in modern and do something that you don't already do more efficently with Thassa's Oracle.
Anyway, I would be very curious to know how would you break this card in modern and do something that you don't already do more efficently with Thassa's Oracle.
I'm going to be honest. After a quick check Modern has changed far more than I expected since I last paid it any attention. That said. A cursory glance tells me this would at minimum be a powerful reloading tool in a number of decks and an extra engine piece in storm. While not as broken as I suspected still far above what should be available to modern players.
Dude you give yourself too much importance. The fact itself that you compared my card to your custom card (and literally got nothing to do with it), pretty tell how much you are self-centered. Stop masturbating yourself with your narcissistic ego big as house. You are nobody. Your designs are not "overwhelming". Are just clunky, wordy, boring and inelegant most of the times. Most of your cards are exactly what any designer actually working at WotC would make as example as "not to do" cards, because they violate the most basic principle of card's design, one of which is about clarity and elegance in effects and templating. Thats why if you would actually manage to create a custom game with your designs you would go bankrupt pretty fast, trust me. Stop deluding yourself of being some like of a misunderstood genius, it will put you nowhere.
Touché
You seem to misunderstand, so let me reiterate myself. When I said that your design wants to be like Assume, I meant that it wants to have the finesse and fluidity that Assume has—but it doesn't. Card potential is gauged not simply on the available potential a card has, but more importantly on how applicable that potential is, and the inclusive potential a card has to take up precious places in a deck. A card is always questioned if it's worth its own place in the deck. Assume is never a dead card in the hand, and it can be exiled by itself, to then act as a stand-alone resource from exile; perfectly capturing the art of the free play enabling a subtle but sweet extension on the potential of a future counter spell.
I understand that your style is that of a conformist. But you do realize you are basically expressing some gross sense of supremacy in the standing of being a conformist; using the terms of "simplicity" and "elegance" as an alibi for tyranny; while you totally broke away from the topic in ad hominem to attack the person and not the problem. Presenting no reasonable case towards its points of interest—flavor, functionality, and application potential. It's totally contradictory to your argument against me suggesting wrong-standing and wrong-doing on the same basis.
Your card does nothing on its own. It's entirely dependent at all times on having other cards (in exile only), at the tax of three mana, while also requiring the potential you can capture is significantly greater than other available options for a single turn effect. Can you do this so it's worth its place in the deck? Realize that, to run this card, you must take away from precious draw and removal. Even in the case of Paradigm Shift, just running two copies of each will take away from 4 precious copies of removal. Alpha competitive potential wants to run as close to 24 removal as possible. This can be split across direct removal spells and psuedo-removal—such as ground removal/landmines. However, you will more commonly see decks being able to make enough space to run between 14~18 copies. At the top range there, running just 2 copies of your Urza's Will and 2 copies of Paradigm Shift will bring you down to 14 removal. This is the bare minimum, and this number works incredibly well to secure mathematical proportion of Pokemon TCG Supporters, but in MTG you run the risk of running into blackholes and voids. You will indefinitely struggle to secure the consistency you need.
You might be able to offset this by using creatures to bait and absorb your opponent's removal and burn so you don't need counter spells for them. But really, your best bet will be to run 4 copies of Cunning Wish to play off Urza's Will and Paradigm Shift on-demand, while Cunning Wish can also double as copies of Pact of Negation from outside the game; thus doubling its potential so it's never a dead card, but can provide power options. Granted, this can only be done where you can afford the 3UU on your next turn to prevent yourself from losing the game. Let's take it as a given you're running mana acceleration suites which allow this. That's great. We will not be able to secure the necessary mathematical proportion for favorable probability at 4 copies of Cunning Wish alone though. We'll need to tech at least 1 copy of Urza's Will and 1 copy of Paradigm Shift in the deck. 6 spots are taken from the deck, bringing our removal base down to 12—with a technical extension of 3 (as an average) that Cunning Wish can double as Pact of Negation. Want to run other counterspells instead: Mental Misstep >> Negate? Add up the numbers between them and Cunning Wish, consider the liabilities of avoidable counters, and you quickly will see how short we are coming up. Yeah, you mine-as-well not.
All this, to potentially only deck yourself (as a quick play on this combo will reduce your deck to nothing); or, for just a single turn to cast from your deck at 3 mana tax. Do you not realize what a wasteful loop this is? No deck needs to jump through these unnecessary hoops to achieve victory, because they can already accomplish this more directly. Your version of Urza's Will isn't really creating a pathway, or shortcut, to anything.
Now, if your Urza's Will did something more outstanding, such as allowing you to cast spells from any zone (including from outside the game) for a single turn, while counter-balancing this by limiting the number of spells you can cast (or limiting the CMC of spells you can cast this way, such as to 3 or less); NOW you would have a truly powerful, self-sufficient design��that's never a dead card in the hand—and perfectly encapsulated in finesse and fluidity.
Yes, certainly, vague claims and praises of conformist standing cannot change the physics of the game and the nature of second-rate standing according to those physics. Simplicity and elegance hold no such light to abolish the darkness of mediocrity.
Public Mod Note
(rowanalpha):
This is not the place for longwinded pontifications about your presumptive self-superiority.
You confirmed exactly my point, you continue to believe to be a misunderstood genius and that everybody else that actually knows better how card design works are a "conformist". Unfortunately for you, it's exactly the other way around : you are a narcisist too self-centered to even recognize how bad are your designs and you hate and refuse to recognize it when other people point that out that truth. Only because YOU subjectively like them, doesnt make them good. Designing cards for games is exactly as a chef making food : if you don't find the taste of most people and the majority doesnt recognize it as good, then you are doing it wrong, period, no matter how hard you try to excuse it with sophisms. Because in a game you don't design things for yourself and just your solitary pleasure, but because your designs must be played by other people. That's the whole point of game design. If you can't grasp even this simple concept, you're simply a desperate delusional case and you will never grow as a designer because you refuse to aknowledge your own fallacies.
Your card does nothing on its own. It's entirely dependent at all times on having other cards (in exile only)
You see the comment of the guy above you? He said that my card is so strong and versatile that shouldnt even allowed in eternal formats, not even modern. And you are trying the convince us that the card is weak, uninteresting and not useful enough lol. You probably don't even play magic in tournaments with other people like him, but have a very abstract and hypothetical idea of what is playable and what is not. Once again, masturbating with your own fantasies and speculations won't get you nowhere, only by interacting with players judgements you can really understand what good game design means.
Lots of complaning about Reap that everyone's done at some point.
Evil, I don't know if you know so I'll fill you in. Reap is notorious around here for exactly what you've experienced. They refuse to budge on their ideology and their ideology is so far removed from the general consensus that they are constantly at odds with everyone. Further, they have stated that they both don't play the game and their idea of how the game should be played involved players drawing multiple cards every turn while creatures should be essentially uninteractable.
Rarely they've actually engaged with people but most often their responses are as above.
Private Mod Note
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Sorcery
Until end of turn, you may play face up cards from exile.
If a card would be put in exile from anywhere this turn, exile it face down instead.
Fun twist over Yawgmoth's Will / Gaea's Will. Of course this card will (ahah) never see the light of day under current design philosophy, but I like the idea to give Mark Rosewater a heart stroke while reading the card.
But if this design it was allowed, I feel it pretty much belong to blue and Urza in particular. His card already technically got an ability that cast cards from exile.
It kind of makes me feel like what you we're looking for here was something in the vein of Assume.
If this was me, I would have had it allow abilities of permanent cards to be activated and triggered from the graveyards; and then ignore all tap costs; and exile the card after the ability resolves if able. Maybe Rebound or Jump-start or something as a finishing touch.
what this has anything to do with a counterspell? It's a recursion effect and a super unique too, with very special uses that a counterspell can never give you. It also accidentally breaks half of a thousand cards (for example you can steal a creature that got a Curse of the Swine, or making stop working an opponent Isochron Scepter to even combo with Paradigm Shift and basically play all your deck in ad nauseam style). There a literally thousands of different ways to make use of this card, only because you fantasy in game design is very limited, doesn't mean it doesn't have his uses. Actually, I suspect it would be even banned in some formats exactly because the effect it's too strong, especially at only 3 mana.
You are the very opposite of what the word "elegance" means in game design.
Not all great developments can or will be "elegant" by means of Zen, including, "the beauty of simplicity".
However, they can still be great designs by the quality of finesse. In which, doing something complex or unique with great style and fluidity.
New things breathe new life into the game. And this is coming from someone who doesn't actually develop a lot of new card types, but actually thrives on finding ways of doing new things with the functionality that already exists, which is much more difficult.
I definitely missed the Paradigm Shift potential. That's a good one, but it is kinda narrow. The strategy development to provide multiple pathways to victory is there, but only as much as what Assume and Snapcaster Mage can accomplish with greater finesse even.
Don't get me wrong. I don't think it's a bad design. I was just providing creative feedback to broaden your perspective.
While most effects can be balanced by increasing their costs. There are a number of effects of which there is no "balanced" cost.
Regardless of your feelings on interacting with cards in exile. A Yawgmoth's Will for exile has no business being printed as Yawgmoth's will had no business being printed.
Yawgmoth will was literally printed in a green version and made it modern legal (and nobody is playing it, btw), so saying that there is no "balance cost" possible is literally false lol.
Every effect can be printed with the right balanced cost, we even have effects that draw all your deck and cast all your spells for free and they are fine in every format exactly because they have a balanced mana costs. I have no idea where you get the (totally wrong) pseudo-truism design that some effects are unbalancable. Even all of the power nine, the most powerful cards existing in Magic are perfectly balanced if you add a couple of more mana cost to each of them.
PS; Also im pretty sure the in non-eternal formats the effect would be just fine without breaking the game that much
Dude you give yourself too much importance. The fact itself that you compared my card to your custom card (and literally got nothing to do with it), pretty tell how much you are self-centered. Stop masturbating yourself with your narcissistic ego big as house. You are nobody. Your designs are not "overwhelming". Are just clunky, wordy, boring and inelegant most of the times. Most of your cards are exactly what any designer actually working at WotC would make as example as "not to do" cards, because they violate the most basic principle of card's design, one of which is about clarity and elegance in effects and templating. Thats why if you would actually manage to create a custom game with your designs you would go bankrupt pretty fast, trust me. Stop deluding yourself of being some like of a misunderstood genius, it will put you nowhere.
When I said Yawgmoth's Will had no business being printed. I don't mean the effect. I mean the card as a whole, the effect at that mana cost.
My point on balance and cost is more complicated. First, unplayable garbage isn't balanced. Second, when I mentioned being unable to balance an effect with a cost I was specifically referring to adjusting its mana cost. Looking back this was very poorly worded. Though I stand by the principle. Adjusting just the mana cost can't result in a balanced version of this effect or Yawgmoth's Will's effect. Other resictioned would be required as shown by the two other cards with Yawgmoth's Will's effect.
For your ps, do you mean non-eternal or are you using eternal as "non-rotating"? Because if you meant non-eternal then I can confidently say that this would be broken as heck in modern. Not sure about pioneer.
I think this card would be perfectly fine for any limited envinroment (so draft and sealed). In Contructed seems also safe for Standard and probably Pioneer.
I meant eternal formats as the formats the have all the magic card pool available but with exceptions (Vintage, Legacy, EDH), Modern is kinda half-way that.
The principle is that the less is vast the card pool environment where the card is legal, the less the card is abusable or breakable, I think we can all agree on that. Which means that ironically isn't Vintage his best place to shine without needing a ban, but au countraire, this place are the smallest formats.
Anyway, I would be very curious to know how would you break this card in modern and do something that you don't already do more efficently with Thassa's Oracle.
Touché
You seem to misunderstand, so let me reiterate myself. When I said that your design wants to be like Assume, I meant that it wants to have the finesse and fluidity that Assume has—but it doesn't. Card potential is gauged not simply on the available potential a card has, but more importantly on how applicable that potential is, and the inclusive potential a card has to take up precious places in a deck. A card is always questioned if it's worth its own place in the deck. Assume is never a dead card in the hand, and it can be exiled by itself, to then act as a stand-alone resource from exile; perfectly capturing the art of the free play enabling a subtle but sweet extension on the potential of a future counter spell.
I understand that your style is that of a conformist. But you do realize you are basically expressing some gross sense of supremacy in the standing of being a conformist; using the terms of "simplicity" and "elegance" as an alibi for tyranny; while you totally broke away from the topic in ad hominem to attack the person and not the problem. Presenting no reasonable case towards its points of interest—flavor, functionality, and application potential. It's totally contradictory to your argument against me suggesting wrong-standing and wrong-doing on the same basis.
Your card does nothing on its own. It's entirely dependent at all times on having other cards (in exile only), at the tax of three mana, while also requiring the potential you can capture is significantly greater than other available options for a single turn effect. Can you do this so it's worth its place in the deck? Realize that, to run this card, you must take away from precious draw and removal. Even in the case of Paradigm Shift, just running two copies of each will take away from 4 precious copies of removal. Alpha competitive potential wants to run as close to 24 removal as possible. This can be split across direct removal spells and psuedo-removal—such as ground removal/landmines. However, you will more commonly see decks being able to make enough space to run between 14~18 copies. At the top range there, running just 2 copies of your Urza's Will and 2 copies of Paradigm Shift will bring you down to 14 removal. This is the bare minimum, and this number works incredibly well to secure mathematical proportion of Pokemon TCG Supporters, but in MTG you run the risk of running into blackholes and voids. You will indefinitely struggle to secure the consistency you need.
You might be able to offset this by using creatures to bait and absorb your opponent's removal and burn so you don't need counter spells for them. But really, your best bet will be to run 4 copies of Cunning Wish to play off Urza's Will and Paradigm Shift on-demand, while Cunning Wish can also double as copies of Pact of Negation from outside the game; thus doubling its potential so it's never a dead card, but can provide power options. Granted, this can only be done where you can afford the 3UU on your next turn to prevent yourself from losing the game. Let's take it as a given you're running mana acceleration suites which allow this. That's great. We will not be able to secure the necessary mathematical proportion for favorable probability at 4 copies of Cunning Wish alone though. We'll need to tech at least 1 copy of Urza's Will and 1 copy of Paradigm Shift in the deck. 6 spots are taken from the deck, bringing our removal base down to 12—with a technical extension of 3 (as an average) that Cunning Wish can double as Pact of Negation. Want to run other counterspells instead: Mental Misstep >> Negate? Add up the numbers between them and Cunning Wish, consider the liabilities of avoidable counters, and you quickly will see how short we are coming up. Yeah, you mine-as-well not.
All this, to potentially only deck yourself (as a quick play on this combo will reduce your deck to nothing); or, for just a single turn to cast from your deck at 3 mana tax. Do you not realize what a wasteful loop this is? No deck needs to jump through these unnecessary hoops to achieve victory, because they can already accomplish this more directly. Your version of Urza's Will isn't really creating a pathway, or shortcut, to anything.
Now, if your Urza's Will did something more outstanding, such as allowing you to cast spells from any zone (including from outside the game) for a single turn, while counter-balancing this by limiting the number of spells you can cast (or limiting the CMC of spells you can cast this way, such as to 3 or less); NOW you would have a truly powerful, self-sufficient design��that's never a dead card in the hand—and perfectly encapsulated in finesse and fluidity.
Yes, certainly, vague claims and praises of conformist standing cannot change the physics of the game and the nature of second-rate standing according to those physics. Simplicity and elegance hold no such light to abolish the darkness of mediocrity.
You see the comment of the guy above you? He said that my card is so strong and versatile that shouldnt even allowed in eternal formats, not even modern. And you are trying the convince us that the card is weak, uninteresting and not useful enough lol. You probably don't even play magic in tournaments with other people like him, but have a very abstract and hypothetical idea of what is playable and what is not. Once again, masturbating with your own fantasies and speculations won't get you nowhere, only by interacting with players judgements you can really understand what good game design means.
Rarely they've actually engaged with people but most often their responses are as above.