Catalin Negru

Hi Catalin -

Really good to get your note. Since I wrote you last, I have come off my year-long stint with the Yolo County grand jury and last August joined the Yolo County Republican Central Committee, and its election integrity subcommittee.

The grand jury was mainly Democrats and after eviscerating my report, they approved it as a whitewash of our local Elections Office. I personally think the Yolo County Elections Office was one of the best run in California, and admired its leader, but he and all of us in California are subject to election laws far looser than anything in Europe. In the 2022 election our Secretary of State mailed out ballots to everyone registered, with no ID check required and no check for citizenship, and 12 million went unaccounted for. Many went to RV parks and other impermissible residences.

More than half of us in the USA now accept there were problems with the 2020 election, and there is an intense effort for election integrity, the best efforts coming from nonpartisan groups. (Many of the Republicans working for election integrity in my opinion don't really understand what is going on, but are just in it for the money or because it is the popular thing to do.)

Both Republicans and Democrats (like my oldest son) agree this is a very important election testing whether or not Democracy will survive in America.

A slight majority of Republicans no longer want to support Ukraine mainly for practical, not idealogical, reasons. Our Republican Speaker of the House and a minority of Republicans believe the idealogical reasons should dominate. I'll talk about the practical reasons for non-support if you ask me to.

As for having a younger candidate for President, I have mixed feelings. I am 80, myself, as Moses was, when God appointed him to lead out the Jews from Egypt. But both Biden and Trump have serious baggage. Trump in particular is an incorrigible egomaniac with bad manners. But I think he did a better job as President than Biden has done (particularly with illegal immigration), and so I will vote for him.

David wrote: "Hi Catalin -

Good to get your note. I have been, for retired me, busy also -- about 80 hours a month currently. I volunteered for a grand jury and am working on report I hope will be released in M..."

Hi David.
Sorry for not answering to your last message... it has been more than a year... but here I am.

David, questions:
1) What is happening in USA?
2) How do you see the future elections?
3) Why republicans no longer want to support Ukraine?

I know you are a conservative and I want to hear your opinion.
From outside, from my point of view, I see America cursed to choose between Biden and Trump. Are there no other, younger, equally capable candidates?

Best.

Hi Catalin -

Good to get your note. I have been, for retired me, busy also -- about 80 hours a month currently. I volunteered for a grand jury and am working on report I hope will be released in March. As a result, my attempts at novel writing have fallen off, though I did meet a former small local newspaper owner and novel writer at my church, and we may try to start a conservative newspaper together.

Some of the conservatives in our country have gotten very upset with our country's direction, and there's a fair amount of political activism and lawsuits going on. I am convinced that our government has worked with what we call big Pharma to push ill-advised vaccinations for younger folk, and to stop doctors from giving their best medical advice to their patients when it doesn't agree with the official government position, which is often wrong. Some of the activism and lawsuits have brought what I would consider favorable results. Also conservatives have now gained control of the House of Representatives, called the People's house, and they may be able to stop us from spending so much money. While that might help our inflation and the inflation in the rest of the world, it could be bad news for Ukraine's military efforts, which we have been heavily underwriting.

Yours truly from California, David

David wrote: "Hi Catalin, [November 23, 2022]

Haven't heard from you in a while, and thought I'd say hi. I'm glad to see you're reading Dune, one of my favorite books. I hope you enjoy it.

- David from Califor..."

Hi David.
I'm glad you wrote me.
Sorry for not writing you back last time.

I was quite busy these last 6 months.
1) I worked hard for the third edition of my book "A History of the Apocalypse"... which will be an improved version of the second edition. At the moment I wait for the cover to be done by a specialist... so, if everything goes well I will publish it at the beginning of 2023.

2) Other than that, I am keeping a close eye on war on Ukraine... As a Romanian, again, I cannot thank you and America enough for the help you have provided to Ukraine.

3) Currently Reading is my short list with books which I indeed currently read or I plan to read in the near future. At the moment I'm learning for an exam at my job, and after that I plan to read that "Drive" book and then continue with "Dune". I plan to read the entire series. I was very impressed by the latest movie, from 2021. I hope the book is at least as good as the movie.
Speaking about books, I do not like Trevor Noah, but his book - "Born a crime" - is super fun. I laughed, I laughed, and at the end I literally cried... If you can ignore the victimization part, the book is worth reading...

That's it about me...
How are you David? What is new in your life, in your country?

Best.

Hi Catalin, [November 23, 2022]

Haven't heard from you in a while, and thought I'd say hi. I'm glad to see you're reading Dune, one of my favorite books. I hope you enjoy it.

- David from California, land of fruits and nuts

Hi Catalin, [May 13, 2022]

It was really good to hear from you again, and interesting to hear your thoughts on the invasion of Ukraine. Before responding to your thoughts, I’ll share some recent thoughts of mine.

Several weeks ago, I took my two sons (now in their forties and living with me) to Chicago on vacation. The Chicago river architectural tour was great — I hadn’t realized Chicago had so many world-class architects. The guide told about Chicago’s resilience, noting after a very devastating 1872 fire, they came back in 1893 with a wonderful world’s fair.

A new documentary on the 2020 stolen election, called “2000 Mules”, wa released last week — I think they finally have the “smoking gun” which can convince the majority of Americans that election fraud in our elections is very real and substantial.

Now about your thoughts — first of all, I was surprised to read that you have concluded that one of the reasons the United States withdrew from Afghanistan was to prepare itself for war in Ukraine. I really don’t see that at all — how did you come up with that? (Americans were certainly fed up with the insurrection in Afghanistan, at 20 years, our longest war — I think very few of us really wanted another war.)

Next, I don’t know about the United States saving Europe. We and a lot of European contries are supplying arms and aid to Ukraine, but no boots on the ground or planes in the air. It really seems to me that tough Ukrainians, with God’s help, are saving themselves. Doctor Iron Fist, the mayor of Kiev, is a good example of the strong Ukrainians effectively resisting the Russian invasion.

And I really don’t know about American foreign policy being consistent. While there is general bipartisan agreement to support Ukraine in the ongoing Russian invasion, our international attitudes and practices seem to have varied widely depending on whether the leftists or Trump populists are in power. And I don’t think you should discount the strong support given to Ukraine by other Europeans, especially the Poles. Also the Germans have broken precedent in what they have done to help Ukraine. Doctor Iron Fist lived in Germany for a while and is one of their heroes.

One thing I agree with you wholeheartedly is that our greed turns against us sooner or later. Americans in my mind, myself included, have compromised our national defense and our moral integrity in our pursuit of inexpensive foreign goods and rich foreign markets. I pray every day for a moral revival, particularly for my state and country, but also worldwide, but many here think it may be too late for the world as we know it.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me, Wishing you well,

Your friend from California,

David

David wrote: "Hi Catalin,

I was happy to hear from you again, and thank you for your condolences. Because my wife wasn't able to be very active and I had been responsible for most of work around the house, the ..."


Hi David.
Sorry for answering so late. And I'll change the focus of our conversation on war.

Romania has borders with Ukraine. I watched the events closely, even before the war started. After more than 2 months of fighting, I came to the following conclusions:

1) One of the reasons the United Stated withdrew from Afghanistan was to prepare itself for war in Ukraine.

2) The United States saved Europe again. And I THANK YOU for that!
2.1 I do not thank Biden or a specific politician. I thank America as a whole because it has a more consistent and coherent foreign policy than Europe. Trump was a disappointment for me because he admired Putin, but he was right in many things when it came to gas dependency on Russia and the need for military investment by European countries.
2.2 The Ukrainians were never alone from the start; they were backed by the Americans.
2.3 The Germans / Austrians - proved to be a bitter disappointment (I don't even mention Hungary, which was an open ally of Russia from long ago)

3) Dependency on Russian and gas/oil for Europe is the same as the dependency of the world on Chinese goods. With every product we buy from countries like China/Russia we contribute to the strengthening of authoritarian regimes that first oppress their own people and then extend themselves over the borders. Our greed turns against us sooner or later, in one way or another.

I hope you are ok...

Best.

Hi Catalin,

I was happy to hear from you again, and thank you for your condolences. Because my wife wasn't able to be very active and I had been responsible for most of work around the house, the transition has not been as difficult as it would be for most widowers. Also we had two grown sons living with us, and that has been a blessing to me and I've been getting a lot closer to the older one now.

I appreciate your sharing of your point of view on truth and untruth.

I agree with the importance of critical thinking. I agree that gathering information from knowledgable experts is helpful. Like you are now an expert on the history of the apocalypse, and a lot of what you said has been helpful to me. When I want to know the truth about political things, I turn to those iwith experience in politics. When I want to know the truth about the coranvirus, I listen to the front-line doctors.

I also agree that knowing logic is a good thing, though I don’t think that being logical necessarily makes you more likely to see the truth. I’m a mathematician and like to use statistics to make points, but I have seen very many instances of statistics being misused to make a point that is not true. Also people that appear to make good sense are not always as reliable as they seem.

I looked up Neil DeGrasse Tyson - he seems to be famous and a good presenter, but what little I saw easiily on the internet causes me to not trust him. Another person who was impressive was Barack Obama — I read two of his books prior to the 2008 election. He was a fabulous presenter who appeared to make good sense, but I think many of us were deceived. He promised that under Obamacare all of us would be able to keep our doctors. That wasn’t true and apparently one of the principle designers of his plan was well aware it wasn’t true. There’s other stuff too that I won’t go into now.

Conversely Trump was a bully, a braggart, and said many things that weren’t true. I didn’t like him, and only voted for him because he was running against Hillary Clinton. But despite being called a racist, he did far more the blacks than Obama did - they got to historic low unemployment rates and their wages went up significantly under his tenure. Even though the mainstream press reporting on him was 94% negative, a number of experts I listen to have made a good case for his presidency being good for the country.

I recommend care in who you listen to. For a positive and balanced viewpoint on many topics, the best source I know of is the Epoch Times.

David wrote: "Hi Catalin

Delighted to hear from you. There was no problem in your delay in replying. My wife died in September and a lot of things have been changing in my life.

1. I have been distracted and ..."

Hi David.

I am very sorry for your loss. I cannot imagine what you have experienced. I hope my message finds you well...

1. I hope that the class with the plague will materialize.

2. I delayed answering you because I wanted to think how to answer regarding truth and untruth. That being said...

I do NOT think that there is a magic tool that allows us to discern between falsehood and truth.
The best thing one can do is to connect himself to reality as much as possible and develop what is called critical thinking. And in order to do that one has to:
(A) gather information as much as possible (through books) (books have a greater chance of reflecting the truth than the web content because there are greater chances that they have been reviewed, checked and rated (filtered) by people with expertise in the subject of the book. Of course, given the fact that we cannot know everything and we usually focus on one or a couple areas of expertise in our work and in our lives, we will be less vulnerable to falsehood in these areas and more vulnerable in all other areas.
(B) master logic.

A while ago I watched this Masterclass with Neil deGrasse Tyson and I think this is the closest thing to what you have asked me:
Links are with spaces below because Goodreads does not allow links to other sites to be put in comments.
- This is the Youtube trailer: https:// www. youtube. com / watch?v=io6QdGcoWMU
- This is the link to the masterclass: https:// www. masterclass. com / classes/ neil-degrasse-tyson-teaches-scientific-thinking-and-communication
I DEARLY RECOMMEND IT.
Now that you brought the question I think I'll watch it again...

Best.

Hi Catalin

Delighted to hear from you. There was no problem in your delay in replying. My wife died in September and a lot of things have been changing in my life.

1. I have been distracted and have not yet developed the syllabus for teaching about the plague. When the class actually happens, I will let you know how it goes.

2. Thank you for sharing your insights in the last couple of paragraphs. I agree with you that we are our own worst enemies. Also I agree that helping people is a very tricky business. I like the saying "no good deed goes unpunished". And I agree that many times the best thing we can do is let people receive the natural consequences of their actions. I think this is what God usually does.

One question of mine that you didn't directly answer is how do we decide who we should best listen to for making life decisions. You did say your best friends are books, and I have no problem with that. But books, like people, can be misleading or helpful. So how do you choose?

One thing that influences my choices are whether I think the author or the person appears to be more interested in helping his reader or listener improve their position than in the potential gain in power or prestige he might get from the reader or listener's acceptance of his position. What do you think of that?

David wrote: "Hi Catalin
Thank you for your open and encouraging message. I will respond to your second point first:

2. After reading your last message, I immediately contacted my pastor, and after some discuss..."

Hi David.

Sorry for replying so late.
I had some exams and certifications to take at my job, so I have been pretty busy...

1. I am glad that your pastor agreed for you to keep the class regarding the plague. Please tell me how it went. Did the students show interest? What was their response?

2. Regarding Afghanistan... here is my opinion:
- I feel sorry for the people in Afghanistan that wanted to leave and they could not. I also feel sorry for the people who died in the process of evacuation... BUT I think that the situation there is what it is because most people did not want to be helped; they did not want change; they wanted an order of things according to their understanding, based on Islamic precepts... and eventually they got it back...
There was no point for America to sacrifice any more soldiers and money for helping groups of people that did not want to be helped... that retreat had to be made long ago... and the resources directed to Afghanistan to be directed in other, more useful, areas, such as internal infrastructure or space force...
If I learned anything while I was a lawyer is that people alone are their greatest enemy... they harm themselves without even realizing it, and if you are trying to help them you risk being harmed yourself in the process... accordingly, many times the best thing you can do is to let natural selection follow its course...

In terms of listening, from my experience I can say that: I listen to all sorts of people and all sorts of ideas, but my best friends are always the books... all sorts of books... from all areas...

Best.

Hi Catalin
Thank you for your open and encouraging message. I will respond to your second point first:

2. After reading your last message, I immediately contacted my pastor, and after some discussion, he appeared open to my doing a short class talking about how Christians have responded to the Bubonic plague in the past, and what that might teach us with regard to what we are going through now. I agree with what you said about the problem of fears and imaginations going wild, though perhaps not always in the same ways as you might see them.

1. Your thoughts about change and obsolescence were intriguing. This morning the wind was blowing furiously here, lots of branches down and the screws on our gate pulled loose (my son said the wood was old) - made me think of the spiritual, political, social winds of change we are seeing. I hope you don't mind metaphors.
I had real trouble getting out of bed this morning, for discouragement. The American effort in Afghanistan was blown down badly. The screws holding our government structures together are being pulled loose. Is the foundation of our government old wood that needs to be replaced? Or is the problem with the political hardware that has been added to it? Or with how the foundation and the new political hardware were put together?
I think it's healthy for us to sometimes question our positions. I am a fan of active listening and continual learning, and you seem to be also. However, I find myself sometimes questioning if I am listening too much to some and too little to others. I try to look at apparent motives and attitudes to decide. What criteria would you recommend for such decisions?

Your friend, David

David wrote: "Hi Catalin - [8/18/21]

I was delighted to read your message yesterday morning. Thank you for your candid, caring and comprehensive response to my last message. It seems to me that your effort to b..."

Hi David.
And sorry for my late reply... lots of things going on in my life during this period.

1. Long story short, I think we are on the same page.

Just a thought: There are many times I question my position and I wonder myself if I am not becoming "obsolete."
- I look at my grandparents, who lived for more than 70 years without phone or TV and how they think about the world...
- I look at my parents, who can barely use a computer, and see how they think about the world...
- I am thinking that maybe, like them, I am slowly becoming resisting the change of this world...
Time will tell if we are right or not...

2. I am glad that you want to start a course on the 1666 plague outbreak. I find fascinating the behavior of the human beings in times of trouble, especially during plagues. I guess that it has something to do with the fact that enemy is "invisible" and this encourages imagination and fear to go wild (unfortunately, we have an example today, with Covid-19).
If you start the course, let me know how it goes and if I can help you with anything.

All the best.

Hi Catalin - [8/18/21]

I was delighted to read your message yesterday morning. Thank you for your candid, caring and comprehensive response to my last message. It seems to me that your effort to be intellectually honest has now resulted in you identifying yourself as an atheist. Nevertheless, I believe God has used you in good ways and is not done with you yet. Your book has enriched my understanding of history. In it, you mentioned Daniel Defoe’s book on the 1666 plague outbreak in London. I am thinking of starting a class based on that book, together with my pastor, if he agrees.

I would also like to acknowledge much of what you said in your last message that I appreciate and/or agree with. I am sympathetic with your preference for being open to opposing points of view, your skepticism of conspiracy theories, and your dislke for Hollywood’s promotion of homosexuality.

Finally, I.d like to give me reaction to your five questions:

“Who would benefit from you mistrusting the democratic institutions of your country?” I don’t think any institution, be it church, government, corporation, or philanthropy, no matter how well designed, is immune from corruption. Where there is corruption, mistrust and efforts to reform the corruption are appropriate. In our country, we have a problem now that those who favor Trump and those who favor Biden don’t trust each other, with good reasons on both sides. I personally think that the Trump folks are both more pragmatic and inclined to tradition, while the Biden folks are more idealistic and into change. I wish they could work to gether better, as they each have something to offer. But as long as they can’t, I think practical and traditional is safer. What do you think?
“Who would benefit from you fearing scientific progress?” Scientific progress done in a neutral or moral direction is a good thing. I like cars, computers, rocket ships. Scientific progress done in an immoral direction is dangerous. Nazi Germany used science in an immoral direction and it needed to be stopped. Would you agree?
“Who would benefit from you rejecting change?” Change done in a positive or moral direction is a good thing. I enjoy interacting with little kids and I enjoy talking with and attempting to persuade people about God. Some change is bad though. Nazi Germany and the Bolsheviks were trying to make changes that I think were bad. Communist China is trying to that now, I think. The free world benefits when changes like that are successfully resisted. Wouldn’t you say?

“Who would benefit from you excessively fearing/hating foreigners?” I don’t think it would be to anyone’s benefit except a xenophobic demagogue is I were to excessively fear/hate foreigners. However, most of the people in our country just want secure borders. The Sacramento-area of California is one of the world’s great melting pots, and I enjoy going to foreign restaurants of which we have many in our town — Afghani , Chinese, Mongolian, Indian, Mexican of oourse. And I enjoy talking with others with different cultures, like you. I’ve met several Rumanians here, including one I worked with in the actuarial office before I retired.

“Who would benefit from you not being a properly informed human being?” Dictators and demagogues benefit from improperly informed human beings. When our country was founded, I read that we had an exceptionally high literacy rate. I believe that that is slipping now. I think there is a growing tendency to substitute indoctrination for critical thinking. I personally read a lot, both books (such as yours) and internet info (from many different points of view) and I talk every day to people who disagree with my political views and I listen to their point of view, just as I listen to yours. i am very much interested in an accurate version of the truth. Do you think we are on the same page now?


Your friend, David

David wrote: "Hi Catalin -
Getting back to my message 6, point 2 -- Things are getting very interesting here, politically. I am about to give you my take on where the USA seems to be going from the standpoint o..."

Hi David.
I read your message like 5 times... carefully.

(1) In every country there are mainly two sides, and - in my opinion - most people fall into the trap of choosing one instead of keeping their neutrality of thought. This is the case of America, where we have Trump and Biden, conservatives and liberals, or my country, where there are anti-west parties and pro-west parties, or again conservatives and liberals.
That being said, if you aim for an accurate version of the truth, it is good to listen to all parties about what they have to say and - if possible - be equally skeptic.

(2) Even though I'm an atheist, when Trump came to power, I was in heaven.
Four years later, Trump proved to be a bitter disappointment; in most matters. At least for me. For example, making Vladimir Putin your friend is for me an unforgivable thing.

(3) When it comes to conspiracy theories, I'm super skeptic. Because extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. That being said, I'm pretty sure that Trump lost the election because most likely many Americans were disappointment by Trump as well. If there was a massive fraud, evidence of such fraud should have been uncovered in traditionally Republican states... yet, this thing did not happen.

(4) I'm sick of feminism, political correctness and homosexuality promoted at Hollywood in the name of diversity. And I also think that excessive multiculturalism is a mistake and western countries should enforce their borders and apply a better selection upon the people who want to enter. Putting together people with radically different cultural backgrounds is a recipe for disaster.
Spreading immigrants all over the country is a tactic done by Germany as well with the Syrian immigrants, so that they do not "coagulate" and easily adopt the local culture. And yes, illegal immigration is a serious problem in the United States of America. I do not know if the Biden administration does this as well, but I do know that censorship is most of the time not a good thing, especially in such matters.

That being said, take one step back and ask yourself:
- who would benefit from you mistrusting the democratic institutions of your country?
- who would benefit from you fearing scientific progress?
- who would benefit from you rejecting change?
- who would benefit from you excessively fearing/hating foreigners?
- who would benefit from you not being a properly informed human being?

Remember: the century-old values many people defend had a beginning of their own and they were new and scary to the first people who came into contact with them. Time may be a good filter, but probably no value lasts forever.

All the best David.

Hi Catalin -
Getting back to my message 6, point 2 -- Things are getting very interesting here, politically. I am about to give you my take on where the USA seems to be going from the standpoint of a charismatic evangelical Christian Republican from California. It may seem conspiracy theorish, but I hope you will hear me out and then I hope you will feel free to give me your candid opinion and to ask challenging questions .

Here goes. Have you heard that our governor Newsom could be recalled next month? Over a million Californians signed a petition to remove him from office and polls show those favoring the recall really close to those against it. This is in spite of California supposedly being a deep blue state with Democrats in apparent total control. The leading candidate to replace Newsom is Larry Elder, a black conservative Republican talk show host with no political experience, and I will be voting for him.

Larry Elder says we have a country to save, and I really agree with him. Have you heard of what our new President has done with the border? He had directed the transportation of illegal immigrants arriving over our southern border (mainly Texas, but also California, Arizona, and New Mexico) to places all over the country. He is openly working with Facebook to censure conservative speech within our country, especially any suggestion that there was massive fraud in our last Presidential election (which at least half of all Americans, and probably most Christians, believe is the case). Our mainstream press appears to be fully complicit in this suppression. (If you want to get facts, Epoch Times is a good source.)

Have you heard of the Cyber Symposium Mike Lindell of Frank Speech.com is hoping to begin tomorrow, August 10? He claims to have proof of election fraud stemming from hacked voting machines, and has offered $5 million if someone can prove him wrong. Also this month Arizona expects to release a forensic audit report which will document the fraud that has occurred in that state. More forensic audits may be coming if Biden's administration doesn't find an excuse to shut them.

This seems like enough for now. Please give me your reaction to what I have said.

- David

David wrote: "Hi Catalin -
Your last message to me (22) of April 17 indicated you would soon be responding to my last answer from April 9, and I had been holding off further correspondence until I heard from y..."

Hi David.

(1) Well, we kind of return to square 1:
- How does one know that God invited him to ask for things? What for some is a sign from the divine for others is nature in action...
- How does one know that it is an ample evidence of God responding to his prayer?
Again, what for some is a sign from the divine for others is nature in action...

I hear a lot that God responded to people's prayers, but, when it is the other way around - and God does not respond to the same people asking for other things - the usual explanation is "God's ways are mysterious." I cannot accept that.

(2) I visited that Trypraying page, but it was not convincing. I prayed for like 25 years of my life; and it felt good. But I realized that I can live without it as well.

All the best David.
Nice to hear from you again.

Hi Catalin -
Your last message to me (22) of April 17 indicated you would soon be responding to my last answer from April 9, and I had been holding off further correspondence until I heard from you, but now I think I'll go ahead and just respond to your message 22.

You say, "Maybe we can see the future or the distant present if we strictly follow certain practices... But, in my opinion, if this is a reproducible thing, then it does not has something to do with the divine - since we cannot force the divine to provide us powers when we do certain rituals - and it should be studied and examined as a natural phenomenon."

I would agree we cannot force God to do anything simply be following certain rituals. Yet if God invites us to ask for things from Him and there is ample evidence of His responding to such requests, shouldn't we be open to responding to His invitation?

In message 14 below I told you about a Trypraying booklet from an organization in the UK, and you said in message 15 you would take a look. Have you had a chance to do so?

Hi Catalin -
I was really happy you enjoyed Tikhon Shevkunov's book. I am grateful to have had the privilege both of reading it and of bringing it to your attention.

I don't have the time and energy to say much more tonight - spiritual, political, and cultural issues in the USA are much on my mind now. But I am looking forward to your further reply.

David wrote: "Catalin -
So happy to hear from you again. Are you still planning to read Everyday Saints and Other Stories by Tikhon Shevkunov? It was written by a communist who became an orthodox monk, and makes..."

Hi David.
I finished the book you recommended to me.
It was extraordinary and very much enjoyed it.
I do not deny that those things described in the book happened, but I think that they can be interpreted in various ways. In any case, I admire those monks for their inner strength and power, exactly as I admire athletes or people who accomplished great features through extreme practice and work. Who knows?!... Maybe we can see the future or the distant present if we strictly follow certain practices... But, in my opinion, if this is a reproducible thing, then it does not has something to do with the divine - since we cannot force the divine to provide us powers when we do certain rituals - and it should be studied and examined as a natural phenomenon.
I'll come soon with a reply to your last answer.
Best and thank you for the recommendation.

David wrote: "Catalin -
So happy to hear from you again. Are you still planning to read Everyday Saints and Other Stories by Tikhon Shevkunov? It was written by a communist who became an orthodox monk, and makes..."

Hi David.

I'm currently reading Everyday Saints and Other Stories and I'll come back to you with a full reply after I finish it. The book is wonderful so far.

Best.

Catalin -
So happy to hear from you again. Are you still planning to read Everyday Saints and Other Stories by Tikhon Shevkunov? It was written by a communist who became an orthodox monk, and makes a good case for a positive Christian viewpoint, which you probably won’t find in the secular books you are now reading.

About your point 1:
I would agree that ideally when one theory proves to be false or a better theory is found, then the initial theory is justifiably discarded. And I now concede that my earlier deprecation of post-1833 science, was overstated. Some modern science certainly includes better theories which have provided among other things, the basis for the superior transportation, agriculture, medicine, and communication that we enjoy today.

There remain, however, other areas of modern science which are not subject to repeatable experiments, such as the proposed chronology of the earth, and I believe these areas are more vulnerable to becoming dogmatic. For example, in order to preserve their theory of an ancient earth, mainstream scientists continue to ignore or suppress countervailing evidence such as the carbon dating of dinosaur bones to under 50,000 years of age (as opposed to the enshrined date of over 60 million years). (I still have reservations about the reliability of carbon dating, for a number of reasons I won’t go into now, but it serves to make my point here.)

About your point 2:
You appear to deny that we can estimate the value of a person’s belief by the value of his actions. I agree some religiously devout individuals may judge the value of a person’s actions based entirely on how the actions conform to their chosen religious dogma. But don’t you think at least some of us try make judgments about a person’s actions based on higher principles? So you might ask, “where do we get such higher principles?”

And this leads to your question, “Do you think that there is a meta-morality, outside of religious dogmas, that comes directly from the divine?” The evidence from the Bible and real life would appear to answer “yes.” The Jewish Christ condemned the proud but mercy-lacking Pharisees, who were very religiously devout to their Jewish religious dogma, but he praised the Jew-friendly Roman centurion for his faith. Even though the Bible indicates the Jews were His chosen people, God frequently disciplined them when they didn’t live up His highest law - “love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all you soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself”. Don’t you think that where people have followed God’s highest law, even in defiance of religious dogma or cultural standards, their actions have often caused people to commend them and view their belief systems favorably?

David wrote: "Catalin -
Following is my response to your challenging message 16:

About your point 1:
I would agree that demonstration through repeatable experiments is a good thing. I further agree that it was..."

Hi David.

(1) In my opinion, science is a collection of theories which - through experiments - were proven to correctly explain reality... at least up to a certain point.
- When one theory proves to be false or a better theory is found, then the initial theory is simply discarded (e.g.: the dark matter problem). This means that modern science is better than the science of the past because it has a better collection of theories. As a proof of that, we have a much greater power in manipulating our environment than in the past.
- If there is a problem with reproducibility, current theories will be revised and maybe new theories will be emanated and tested through experiments.

(2) Quote: But can't we estimate the value of a person's beliefs by the value of his actions?
In religious systems, never... the value of the action is always given by the consistency of the action in question in relation to the a certain religious dogma (If Islam say that action X is wrong, then for Muslims action X is wrong; If Judaism says that action X is right, then for Jews action X is right).
But your question brings to surface another question: Do you think that there is a meta-morality, outside of religious dogmas, that comes directly from the divine? Both YES or NO brings a lot of religious implications...

Best.

Catalin -
Following is my response to your challenging message 16:

About your point 1:
I would agree that demonstration through repeatable experiments is a good thing. I further agree that it was generally satisfied by the pre-1833 scientific theories produced by the Christian founders of the fields of physics, chemistry, and electromagnetism. But now I ask doesn't the theory of evolution hypothesize changes which have yet to be observed, let alone reproduced? And not only that, isn't there now a presently existing general problem in reproducibility?.
See 'Most scientists can't replicate studies by their peers' - BBC
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-envi....

Also as a Christian, I like the idea of nature chained together or unified. And doesn't Genesis 1 do a good job of this? But now, among other things, modern science has proposed the dark matter theory. This theory says there is now "dark matter" which composes most of the universe, but no one has been able to a sample of it. See Dark matter - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_ma...
Do you really think modern science does a better job of unifying nature than the science we had from its original Christian founders?

About your point 2:
You make the point that opposing beliefs are equally valid or invalid because they rely on the same un-demonstrable thing, our beliefs. I agree we can't really know for sure each other's beliefs. But can't we estimate the value of a person's beliefs by the value of his actions? Which is not to say may make a mistake in doing so. Which is why could really use the help of a superior being - God.

So is God real? And if He is, does He want to relate to us? And if He does, can we rely on Him to give us relevant, rational, right answers to our questions and to relay restrictions to keep us out of trouble? What do you think?

As for me, I called to God for help in the depth of my depression from having lost my fifth job in 1974 and came to realize He was a person, not just a concept. He has been faithful to me ever since, through many trials and stumblings, and so I would answer "yes" to all of the above.

I have really valued this continuing opportunity we have to share our thoughts with each other. May the Lord's peace be with you.

- David

Your message 16 is a good challenge, and I hope to spend a couple days mulling over how best to respond.

On another topic, I was able to access the 60 second prayer video on try praying UK's Facebook site by copying the following phrase onto my Google Chrome web browser:

https://fb.watch/4gPXRfwv5G/

David wrote: "I was looking forward to your message 12 below in response to my message 11.

We appear to agree that God is all-powerful, all-knowing, all-present, and yet, according to the Bible, man appears to..."

Unfortunately, this is the major difference between science and religion...

1. Science can synchronize people's thinking through external palpable evidence. Even though I do not understand a lot of things from the environment, they can be demonstrated through repeatable experiments. Moreover, the things I do not understand can be linked to the few things I DO understand... all things in nature are chained... they are not isolated...

2. Religion cannot synchronize people's thinking through feelings and beliefs because these are personal, inside people's minds. If religion makes someone a better person, that is great.
But here is the thing:
---A--- Person X says that his god revealed to him signs 1, 2, 3 through which god encouraged him to tolerate other people. For person X this means making the world a better place and god's work: to tolerate others and live peacefully.
---B--- Person Y says that his god god revealed to him signs 4, 5, 6 through which god encouraged him to kill anyone who disagrees with him. For person Y this means making the world a better place and god's work: to purify the world of infidels.

Who is right?
In my opinion they are both right and none of them is right. Their arguments are equally valid or invalid because they rely on the same un-demonstrable thing: "I believe... I feel... (based on my experience that I cannot prove)".
And this is how wars start.

David wrote: "Dear Catalyn -

This morning I just got an e-mail from an organization in the UK I have been in touch with. I realize you are probably very busy, but on their Facebook site (trypraying UK), they ha..."

Sure David, I'll take a look. Send me the link please.

Dear Catalyn -

This morning I just got an e-mail from an organization in the UK I have been in touch with. I realize you are probably very busy, but on their Facebook site (trypraying UK), they have a pretty good video for 60 second prayer. I would be really interested in your reaction if you would be willing to try it.

Yours truly, David

I was looking forward to your message 12 below in response to my message 11.

We appear to agree that God is all-powerful, all-knowing, all-present, and yet, according to the Bible, man appears to have influenced Him, who sounds like He is an unlimited being. You appear to imply this doesn't make sense.

I confess I really don't understand how or why an unlimited being would care about or be influenced by me. But -- just because I don't understand something doesn't mean it isn't true and useful. I don't understand why gravity works (action at a distance?!) or how quantum mechanics works (entangled split photons in different spacetimes having opposite effects on each other?!), but the physical laws based on these concepts are very useful in making life better (rockets and now quantum computers, for example), so I'm willing to accept them.

So why can't shouldn't I treat the reality of the Christian God similarly? If following Jesus makes life better, and the advance of western civilization appears to show it does (hospitals, universities, physics, chemistry, electromagnetic theory, the telegraph, abolition of slavery, orphanages, emancipation of women, etc. etc. were all developed or advanced by people seeking to follow Jesus), then isn't it reasonable to at least consider following Jesus because he makes life better? According to the Bible, there's also a bonus for doing that - Christians get to go to a nicer place after they die. OK?

David wrote: "Catalin wrote: David, here is an exercise of simple logic when it comes to the relation between god and people:

(A) On the one hand there is the divine, who is infinitely more powerful than man.
(..."

According to Christian doctrine, God is all-powerful, all-knowing, all-present... If he does not have these attributes, he is not longer the supreme deity, at least according to the Abrahamic religions.

Now, how can a limited being, such as man, influence an unlimited being, such as God?
And yet, as you mentioned David, the Bible contains a lot of accounts where man seems to have influenced God...

Catalin - You indicated an interest in my take on our situation here in the USA and in my creationist viewpoint. Because of your scientific and religious bent, I will take up the creationist viewpoint first.

I believe Noah's flood occurred around 3000BC, more consistent with the Septuagint (Orthodox Bible) than the western ones. This timing is also consistent with what I've heard about river deltas being about 5000 years old. Besides geology, I have also looked into the implications from genetics, carbon dating, and archaeology (I've been to a dig at what is thought to be the city of Sodom). And I've looked into the implications from ancient myths and history (like from the Sumerians) and demographics and longevity (I'm a retired pension actuary).

I'm on my tenth time reading through the Bible, and I am convinced it tells a true story, historically as well as ethically. I would be happy to discuss with you any of the areas where the current scholarly consensus in the fields I mentioned above appears to contradict the my reading of the Bible (such as it often does, with the Flood). I'm open to looking at any logical, philosophical, psychological, historical, ethical, spiritual as well as scientific considerations.

- yours truly, David

Catalin wrote: David, here is an exercise of simple logic when it comes to the relation between god and people:

(A) On the one hand there is the divine, who is infinitely more powerful than man.
(B) On the other hand, there is the human being, a very limited creature.

Given the situation:
1. IF God can be influenced by humans beings through any means (prayer for example), THEN God is not god.
2. IF God cannot be influenced by humans through any means (again, prayers for example), THEN any of our actions in relation to him are useless.

So happy to get your response, though I do have difficulty with it. Question: Why do you say if God can be influenced by human beings through any mean, then God is not god? The Bible is considered the principle written source of knowledge about the Christian God, and all through it are instances of God apparently being influenced by people Just this morning I read Numbers 14 where both Moses and Joshua apparently influence God. What is your take on that?

David wrote: "Catalin - I am grateful for the opportunity to converse with you. Following are some topics we could consider:
1. I just reviewed Romania's the the Romanian Orthodox history on Wikipedia and woul..."

David, let's go with 2, 3 and 4.
Please tell me about 2 and 3 (4 was covered in your subsequent post).

David wrote: "Catalin - I think in one of your earlier messages (I can't locate it now), you had indicated as a quick argument against what I was saying about Christian faith being good and effective, that praye..."

David, here is an exercise of simple logic when it comes to the relation between god and people:

(A) On the one hand there is the divine, who is infinitely more powerful than man.
(B) On the other hand, there is the human being, a very limited creature.

Given the situation:
1. IF God can be influenced by humans beings through any means (prayer for example), THEN God is not god.
2. IF God cannot be influenced by humans through any means (again, prayers for example), THEN any of our actions in relation to him are useless.

Catalin - I think in one of your earlier messages (I can't locate it now), you had indicated as a quick argument against what I was saying about Christian faith being good and effective, that prayer often went unanswered. So I wanted to give you my take on why that might be:

Here are four possible reasons we might appear to not get what we ask God for:
1. Improper attitude, such as too proud (some of your Apocalypse predictors perhaps?) or too angry (I used to pray with my wife in anger - ineffective)
2. Inadequate detail - if we aren't specific in our request, how will we know if and when it gets answered?
3. Lack of persistence - it sometimes helps to keep asking
4. Inability to recognize the answer - like when the timing or the nature of the answer is different than expected

Does this sound reasonable? Would you like to share experiences?

Catalin - I am grateful for the opportunity to converse with you. Following are some topics we could consider:
1. I just reviewed Romania's the the Romanian Orthodox history on Wikipedia and would like to get your take, particularly the Communist suppression of religion (Lutheran pastor Wurmbrand as an example) and the 1989 Revolution.
2. If you're interested, I can give you my take on where the USA seems to be going from the standpoint of a charismatic evangelical Christian Republican from California, and you could give me yours.
3. If you're interested, I can give you my creationist take on Noah's flood and why the earth may be much younger than most scientists now think - my own family doesn't agree with me on this though, so I won't be surprised if you'd consider that topic a waste of time. But if you're up to it, I would be more than happy to discuss/debate the issue with you. I have some experience having done that on the internet.
4. But most importantly, In my immediately following message, I would like to share with you and discuss why prayer doesn't seem to always get answered.

Catalin - I was thinking last night that I had been too loud and obnoxious in my submissions yesterday, and I was relieved this morning that you were willing to continue the conversation. I talked with my elder son, who is very much in agreement with your point that the claims of faith cannot be verified and proven to the outside.

Certainly many Protestants and the Catholics in the 30 years war were using force rather than conversation to establish their religious faith. And religious faith certainly has been a major criteria for dividing/separating people into groups alongside skin color or nationality, and has thereby been an additional reason for conflict.

Again, I am grateful for the opportunity to continue to converse with you, even about faith, and, Lord willing, I will have more to say soon.

David wrote: "Catalin-

I have a followup to my message 2:

First of all, I should have said thank you for allowing me to be a friend. I love the opportunity to not have to be super-concise in how I express myse..."

Sam Harris says that faith is a conversation stopper because its claims cannot be verified and proven to the outside.
For person 1 god means X , while for person 2 god means Z. Both persons think differently about the divine based on their different (inner) experiences, yet, they both think they are right. Neither of them can verify and prove their belief, hence convincing the other about own belief can rarely be made by conversation, but by force...

Faith is a major criteria of dividing/separating people into groups alongside skin color or nationality, and accordingly an additional reason for conflict...

Catalin-

I have a followup to my message 2:

First of all, I should have said thank you for allowing me to be a friend. I love the opportunity to not have to be super-concise in how I express myself. But if I do talk to much (like now?), please let me know.

I was thinking about Sam Harris's statement that we have a choice between conversation and war. He could have been thinking of the Thirty Years war as an example. When the very Catholic Holy Roman Emperor demanded his Czechs become Catholic in 1618, they threw his emmisaries out the window. 8 million died during the ensuing 30 year war. If you considered this to be just a war about faith, you could argue faith was both violent and a conversation stopper.

But -- was faith really to blame for the violence? Since Luther's 95 theses in 1509, faith had produced both Reformation and Counter- reformation, accompanied by the printing press, and many new discoveries, much expansion of knowledge, good things. Per Wikipedia, faith can be defined as confidence or trust. By this definition, wouldn't you say that the 30 years war was caused not by the faith, but by lack of faith, of both the Protestants and Catholics?

Catalin -

I was going to write you about my take on the who, when, where, what, why, and how of prayer but then I saw the following startling quote which was given above:

“We have a choice. We have two options as human beings. We have a choice between conversation and war. That's it. Conversation and violence. And faith is a conversation stopper.”
― Sam Harris

My response: Faith is a conversation stopper??! If Sam Harris means faith with no evidence, I think I could see that. But if we have convincing evidence for our faith, doesn't faith actually enhance conversation? Hasn't Christian faith been involved in nearly all of western science from 1225 (Robert Grossteste) at least up through about 1833 (Charles Lyell)?

Moreover isn't openly sharing our sincere beliefs, that is our faith, though not necessarily Christian faith, especially through books, at least up from 1509 (Luther) possibly up through 2020, what has most contributed to post-medieval western civilization?

And right now I am hoping to show that our sharing of our disparate faiths is not a conversation stopper. It certainly hasn't stopped me. Please continue with your response.

- David

Thank you for the friend request Catalin. Look forward to some great chat about bookish things :)