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Broetchenholer has Terra Invicta

Jun 21 @ 9:56am

East African Federation

Hi Community,

is there actually a way to get the countries in the East African Federation stable? I have now tried to rival all possible nations in my faction, keeping my own public opinion above 50%, putting nation spending into 43% welfare, 29% economy, and 14% unity/14% knowledge. In fall of 24 cohesion reached it's rest value of 0 for Tanzania with revolution following shortly after and now in January 25, after having 3 agents pump stabilize into Kenya, Tanzania and the other revolutioned Uganda the three nations are for now not revolting, but only because i push buttons all the time.

I tried involving my states into wars with egypt, but egypt has to be adjacent to someone to do that, so no wars for me. The only other thing i could do is take over a nation with a navy and try to get war boni for cohesion that way. But my calculations are, it would not be enough:

Tanzania in January 25:

Inequality: 3,752 = -12,194 cohesion rest value
Per Capita GDP: 2783 -4,717 cohesion rest value
-2,3 cohesion rest value from population
-0,93 from geographic population distribution
+3 from 6 rivalries
-0,9 from elite/public ideology differences (60% Public opinion)
-2,2 from a 5,4 Anocracy, apparently the coup moved government value up.

So the current rest value with that is, after a coup, 0,27. I don't think i can get more then one war going, thats a rest value of ~1,3, meaning a unrest rest value of 9....

Kenya has the benefit of having twice the gdp per capita, so they currently have a unrest rest value of 8,6, Uganda has less neighbors outside of the wanted federation, so they are a solid 10 unrest rest value and Ruanda-Burundi is authoritarian, so they fare a little better.

I have given up at this point trying to fix anything south of Tanzania, but i thought at least those 4 nations should be possible. And i know that creating the federation and unifying those nations does absolutely nothing besides having just one stabilize mission, but baby steps right?

So anything i am missing that i could do?

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Showing 1-15 of 30 comments

gimmethegepgun has Terra Invicta

Jun 21 @ 10:52am

Knowledge and Unity are a waste of resources in your current situation. Knowledge is for countries that are relatively stable and have the ability to spend on it instead of needing other things, and Unity is for protecting countries against Public Campaigns, which is only useful in countries that the AI actually wants to take, i.e. better countries than those.
In previous versions, the general rule was, run Welfare until Inequality is below 4, then run Economy until pcGDP is above $7k, then run Welfare until the Cohesion resting point is where it should be. I'm not sure how much this has changed, but I'm guessing it's still on point.

POWER WITHIN USER has Terra Invicta

Jun 21 @ 11:35am

Unfortunately, you'll have to babysit African countries until you manage to unify them into the larger nations. Rivalries were nerfed, wars are too expensive as you'll have to grab several nations with navies, get them to declare war on African countries of your choosing then -ideally- keep those countries' points so that they don't go ahead and attack move armies through the African nations you're trying to improve.
Fortunately if you start early you'll have less problems to worry about (such as other factions running spoils for 2 decades) but every African country you grab means points not being used to hold better nations.

A high unrest rest value isn't the end of the world.

Broetchenholer has Terra Invicta

Jun 21 @ 12:32pm

@gimmethegepgun: From a numbers point of view, reducing inequality is better for the cohesion resting point. The actual point of gdp per IP depends on a lot of stuff, but Tanzania for example has 9,03$ GDPPP for one IP, meaning to raise GDPPP by 1000, you would need 110,7 IP, resulting in +1 cohesion rest. The same amount in IP would drop inequality by 0,505 and cohesion rest by 1,64. I would happily do both, but there is no point if cohesion rest is 0 because then unrest rest is 10 and you cannot "heal" against that, even if you babysit. I agree unity is harmful in the long run, i thought it would help prolong the time until everything dies du to reaching 0 cohesion. But yeah, not the case, better to just push welfare.

@POWER WITHIN USER: A unrest rest value of 7 is fine i guess, it just cripples your ability to actually get something out of the nation and it gives a chance for nasty events that reset anything you did. A unrest rest value of 10 is the end of your ambitions for that nation, there is no stablizing against it and if you try to, like you said you are using resources you would rather use for something else. It's really a pity that the current model means only 3 or 4 sub saharan countries are salvageable :(

POWER WITHIN USER has Terra Invicta

Jun 21 @ 1:25pm

Originally posted by Broetchenholer:
A unrest rest value of 7 is fine i guess, it just cripples your ability to actually get something out of the nation and it gives a chance for nasty events that reset anything you did.

The value means that without player or councilor intervention, unrest will increase by a tiny amount every month until it reaches 7, and also that if you manage to lower unrest below 7/2=3.5, then councilor actions would be less effective. Sure, cohesion at 0 doesn't help because negative events affecting it would go towards unrest but if you can prepare for those then it's not a big deal.
In practice councilors will be able to keep up with unrest and there's also critical successes.

Keeping unrest hovering near 4 would buy you enough time to come up with a more permanent solution to the problem such as creating an army (which counters some unrest, and allows for declaring war to neighboring countries at which point a larger nation can take over the 'recruitment' process), peaceful unification or to get some other nation related value high enough.

gimmethegepgun has Terra Invicta

Jun 21 @ 3:49pm

Originally posted by Broetchenholer:
@gimmethegepgun: From a numbers point of view, reducing inequality is better for the cohesion resting point. The actual point of gdp per IP depends on a lot of stuff, but Tanzania for example has 9,03$ GDPPP for one IP, meaning to raise GDPPP by 1000, you would need 110,7 IP, resulting in +1 cohesion rest. The same amount in IP would drop inequality by 0,505 and cohesion rest by 1,64. I would happily do both, but there is no point if cohesion rest is 0 because then unrest rest is 10 and you cannot "heal" against that, even if you babysit.

As you said in OP, your cohesion rest point is already above 0. Until it's a LOT higher than that, it has little practical effect on how the country improves, because it needs councilor intervention to keep Unrest low regardless. The most important thing is that it's not 0, because Cohesion being at 0 quadruples the amount of Unrest gained per month. With that in mind, though Economy has less of an effect on the Cohesion resting point, it increases the IPs of the country, making improvements come faster. Below $7.5k pcGDP, Economy runs triple duty by improving the Cohesion resting point by more than half as much as Welfare does, in addition to its normal effects of increasing IPs (that +$1k will increase IPs by about 10% at its current pcGDP) and decreasing the Unrest resting point (that +$1k will also decrease the Unrest resting point by 0.1, which is very similar in effect to increasing the Cohesion resting point by 0.1)

@POWER WITHIN USER: A unrest rest value of 7 is fine i guess, it just cripples your ability to actually get something out of the nation and it gives a chance for nasty events that reset anything you did. A unrest rest value of 10 is the end of your ambitions for that nation, there is no stablizing against it

The rest value only determines at what point it will stop changing monthly. Using Stabilize to prop up the country requires the same amount of maintenance for any country below its Unrest resting point (1 Successful Stabilize mission every 2 months, or a Critically Successful mission for 4 months). 7 or 10, it's all the same, as long as Cohesion isn't 0.

Ericus1

Jun 21 @ 3:58pm

The above advice is excellent and sums up the nuances of the game mechanics precisely. For the super poor AU, econ is what you want to run near 100% - along with DI econ investment - as soon as you can get cohesion off the 0 floor through all means available.

And use your high miltech other megastates to beatstick the African nations into the AU. Trying to do it diplomatically for anything sub-Saharan is generally a giant waste of time and councilor actions because keeping them stable long enough to last through the diplo cooldown timers is not worth the effort. Just keep in mind the way unoccupied regions effect defensive army bonuses and don't let defensive modifiers stack or they will bog down your armies.

Last edited by Ericus1; Jun 21 @ 4:00pm

Broetchenholer has Terra Invicta

Jun 22 @ 12:56am

I guess we all agree that having several countries at 9 Unrest resting value is not possible or desirable. I guess ruhsing the Eastern African Federation is not really possible unless you perfect the timing and immediately get Arrival International relations and then dump massive stabilize missions in the countries. I will prioritize Economy more, that should longterm be a good solution.

By the way, does anybody know why the african countries below the equator have a cohesion change towards 0 of -0,25 and not 0,1 as the wiki claims? Haven't found anything that influences the drift speed online or in game. But there is a difference and i can't figure it out.

gimmethegepgun has Terra Invicta

Jun 22 @ 1:35am

Originally posted by Broetchenholer:
I guess ruhsing the Eastern African Federation is not really possible unless you perfect the timing and immediately get Arrival International relations and then dump massive stabilize missions in the countries.

Nah, it's easy. Build an army in Tanzania, ally them with one (or several) of your nations that have navies, and declare war on the claimed countries, using the military beatsticks of their allies to annex them.

By the way, does anybody know why the african countries below the equator have a cohesion change towards 0 of -0,25 and not 0,1 as the wiki claims?

Countries with more than 4.0 Inequality have increased monthly cohesion loss. It scales from -0.1 at 4.0 or less to -0.25 at I believe 4.5 or more.

Broetchenholer has Terra Invicta

Jun 22 @ 2:20am

Ah, thanks a lot :)

Broetchenholer has Terra Invicta

Jun 22 @ 1:05pm

And another question, it's December 2024 again and i have settled. Suddenly, i have lost a control point without a popup, and all nations with less then 5 cohesion suddenly have lost between 0,8 and 1 cohesion. It's not just me, it's all nations. What the hell happened?

I am pretty sure the event that moves cohesion to the extremes already passed? Or is that dependent on a tech that was late?

Last edited by Broetchenholer; Jun 22 @ 1:17pm

#10

gimmethegepgun has Terra Invicta

Jun 22 @ 2:11pm

Originally posted by Broetchenholer:
I am pretty sure the event that moves cohesion to the extremes already passed? Or is that dependent on a tech that was late?

There's one tech that will cause this, which is Deep Space Skywatch.

#11

Ericus1

Jun 22 @ 10:04pm

There is the "wave of fear" event that does that, that can recur.

Last edited by Ericus1; Jun 22 @ 10:05pm

#12

Broetchenholer has Terra Invicta

Jun 25 @ 3:53am

Can this trigger multiple times without popup? It just happened again :(

#13

Swat__Raptor has Terra Invicta

Jun 25 @ 6:11am

Originally posted by Broetchenholer:
Can this trigger multiple times without popup? It just happened again :(

The event has a global cool down timer of 6 months so it can't happen back to back. And its only increases unrest, it doesn't make you lose a control point.

Last edited by Swat__Raptor; Jun 25 @ 6:14am

#14